I like to think so, but it's debatable, DT still leads the TargetingChallenge... Speaking of challenges, maybe it's time to start an AntiShadowChallenge?? It still supports the "movement only" behavior, and it would be interesting to know where each gun stands against my movement. -- ABC
You must be mad to suggest that. =) What about we make a TargetingChallenge2K4 and include Shadow, RaikoMX and Lacrimas in the line up of reference bots? DT doesn't lead the TC that counts the most for RR@H performance. I am pretty sure Shadow would outperform DT in TargetingChallenge/ResultsFastLearning. -- PEZ
You can alway use the properties file to optimise against Shadow. A public challenge would also help me in identifying its weaknesses. And a targeting challenge is somewhat different from a battle situation since you don't influence the enemy's movement with your own, and only use power 3 bullets. I would include DT 2.41 in a 2K4 challenge, it was the first one to include true adaptive movement. -- ABC
If you don't count Marshmallow 0.5.something that is. It had EnemyWaves and adaptive movement. But I had not been robocoding long enough then to understand much about movement so I didn't get it to work... Well, it's so many things I don't get to work. =) We can replace the current DT with a 2.41 of course. But I think we should try make the line-up a little more balanced. Succeeding in RR@H is not about gunning down ghosts like Shadow. =) -- PEZ
Muffin has a pretty average movement I could volunteer. -- Kuuran
OK. Let's add Muffin and Shadow I say. What bots should be removed? (I like 10 as a number). Maybe this discussion should move to the TargetingChallenge2K4 page. -- PEZ
TheArtOfWar isn't making any useful contribution except inflating rankings. -- Kuuran
What? TAOW is an excellent test on whether your stat gun works or not. -- PEZ
Well, if your stat gun doesn't work, it's not gonna score very high in the targeting challenge anyway. If you look at the scores, TAOW seems to be the first bot that you could eliminate on a "too easy to hit" basis. -- nano
You are obviously right. Good, that makes one bot less. -- PEZ
We could also take out FunkyChicken - getting a high score against that movement was more a matter of speed, since he hit walls, preventing people from getting near-perfect scores. -- Kawigi
That's true, I've thought to myself on more than one occasion that FunkyChickenTC? was more a test of 'can you kill him before he kills himself'. ;p That's not too compatible with the current indexing method. -- Kuuran
Adding DuelistNano to the list since it's a ProblemBot for so many people. Should be pretty easy to hit, we can take it off if it's too easy. --David Alves
Boy, was it a problem bot of Marshmallow for very long! Release a TC version of it please. -- PEZ
And. I've changed my mind about TheArtOfWar. It was able to help Tango find a bug that the other bots in the TC didn't and it still makes Falcon misbehave in a way that the others reference bots don't. -- PEZ
I still contend that that's just a bug. :) But if you want to leave it in to make your testing easier, that's fine. You could always test on TAOW even if it wasn't part of the TC. -- nano
Added RaikoNano to the list, just because we need to finalize the list, and RaikoNano has, I think, a good reference movement to test against. That is, if Jamougha doesn't mind. ;) -- nano
Doesn't it have the same movement as RaikoMX? If so let's put in a different bot for variety. --David Alves
No, much different movement. RaikoMX has a kind of adaptive movement IIRC. -- nano
RaikoMX's movement isn't adaptive - however it's completely different it both theory and execution to Raiko's (that's my justification for not removing it yet :-) ) I'm not sure if either is a good test subject as my movements are generally lousy against power 3 bullets, though. -- Jamougha
We need some lousy movements too. =) -- PEZ
As a simpler movement, i reccon we should use TimDog?. At least it my experience it proves quite difficult to hit. --Brainfade
TimDog? is a great mover, but IIRC it tries to continuously move closer to the opponent, which is probably not good for a targeting challenge. That's the problem with most of the top movement-focussed nanos like TimDog?; they're trying to get up close where linear targeting is as good as anything else. -- Jamougha
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